(c) Robert Neil Boyd
[Comment on list]: "Reflecting last night on my way home on information vs consciousness, whether they could be equated at the most fundamental level, this came to mind:
Most fundamentally there is pure consiousness (God?), it could be said that 'pure consciousness' = ALL information. This bit of Ivar's email struck me as very important and fitting into this line of thought (for what it worth :-):
And that would be totally ALL information. Any departure from it to reals would mean loss of information compared to absolute information.
So, whatever differentiation from 0 (or wholeness, absolute pure consiousness) occurs, and the first separate structure originates that could be perceived as in itself (still of course connected to the whole) - it would only contain partial information compared to absolute (ALL) information. so we have individual consiounsess structure now which only contains (and therefore can only transmit or receive) partial information, depending on its structure/organisation (its own in-formation)."
[R. N. Boyd]: Yes! This is EXACTLY right! Perfect! Thanks so much! I had lost how to express this properly. Everything is alive, everything has Consciousness, everything has sentience.
See, the problem is still that the math functions do not intrinsically contain Life, or Consciousness, or information. Information cannot be treated as any manner of binary or pseudo-binary system.
Less so, can Consciousness be treated. The factors of Life and Consciousness and information need to be brought into the picture as seperate entities, not as mathematically derived artifices. The math is NOT reflecting Reality.
This is because mathematics is a system of logic. And there is no logical system which is immune to Godel's Laws. What this means, is that mathematics, and other logical systems, will be in the perpetual state of being incomplete.
Godel's Laws break down at Infinity. So, the representations must incorporate the Infinite, else they will fail to be at all useful to studies of Consciousness. Others have proposed multiple layers of infinity involved with the Infinitesimals. This may be a good understanding, or it may be a wrong direction. We need to base our explorations on what is directly experienceable, what is instrumentable.
I propose that my expression from last year, a Quantum Physics which contains Sentience, is more along the right lines of the correct understanding. Then, given these understandings, it is much easier to see how these quantum behaviors are originating from the SubQuantum. Please.
You cannot assume that there can exist a condition where there is 0 Consciousness, nor 0 intelligence, etc. The Universe works exactly in the way Lena has expressed, not in terms of a dead, an inert, system of mathematical abstractions. Life and Consciousness are in the BASIS. The Foundations of Reality are identically Consciousness.
As has been stated by others, "most fundamentally there is pure consiousness (God?), it could be said that 'pure consciousness' = ALL information."
Everything else is depending on this, as Lena expressed with,
"Whatever differentiation from 0 (or wholeness, absolute pure consiousness) occurs, and the first separate structure originates that could be perceived as in itself (still of course connected to the whole) - it would only contain partial information compared to absolute (ALL) information."
This is the foundation! This is the basis! There can be no deviation from this understanding, in my opinion.. Please see attached logical sequence, which derives a Sentient quantum physics. (Adrian has seen this before.) I am trying to suggest that Life and Consciousness need to be in the mix as intimate and relevant factors, in the basis, in the foundations. This is all driven by the engine of information, and information transport. And this information involves everything about everything. Then it is discriminated and individuated according to the circumstances, probably similar to way Lena suggested this might go, with her "partial information" expression.
Uniqueness is another property which is very difficult to properly treat mathematically. Yet, uniqueness is exceedingly important to understanding the inner workings of Reality. Where does Uniqueness derive from? I say it derives from the variations of the Unified Information base, the Unified Cosmic Awareness, and its falling into various pieces and parts, while remaining unified as a Whole, much in the same way as expressed by Bohm, with his "undivided wholeness" expressions. In this regard, our Layers of Implicate Order, are on exactly the right lines, and are experimentally provable. The Undivided Wholeness is accomplished by infinite velocity information transports by the vehicles of the infinitesimals, which infinitesimals combine with various other infinitesimals to form our various particles and fields, with information propagating every step of the way. Consciousness and Sentience are there in the process the entire time, through the entire process. These factors can NEVER be excluded! Certainly not for the lack of awareness of the various forms of Consciouness, such as Devas and Rocks! Just because another person is color blind, does not mean I am.
So, let's try to do this more along the lines of this little paper.
Where the factors are not already present, let us install them, and see
where this takes us, as I did with Sentience in this paper. These
expressions make perfect sense of what Lena has said today.
(c) Robert Neil Boyd
[Comment on list]: "Reflecting last night on my way home on information vs consciousness, whether they could be equated at the most fundamental level, this came to mind:
Most fundamentally there is pure consiousness (God?), it could be said that 'pure consciousness' = ALL information. This bit of Ivar's email struck me as very important and fitting into this line of thought (for what it worth :-):
And that would be totally ALL information. Any departure from it to reals would mean loss of information compared to absolute information.
So, whatever differentiation from 0 (or wholeness, absolute pure consiousness) occurs, and the first separate structure originates that could be perceived as in itself (still of course connected to the whole) - it would only contain partial information compared to absolute (ALL) information. so we have individual consiounsess structure now which only contains (and therefore can only transmit or receive) partial information, depending on its structure/organisation (its own in-formation)."
[R. N. Boyd]: Yes! This is EXACTLY right! Perfect! Thanks so much! I had lost how to express this properly. Everything is alive, everything has Consciousness, everything has sentience.
See, the problem is still that the math functions do not intrinsically contain Life, or Consciousness, or information. Information cannot be treated as any manner of binary or pseudo-binary system.
Less so, can Consciousness be treated. The factors of Life and Consciousness and information need to be brought into the picture as seperate entities, not as mathematically derived artifices. The math is NOT reflecting Reality.
This is because mathematics is a system of logic. And there is no logical system which is immune to Godel's Laws. What this means, is that mathematics, and other logical systems, will be in the perpetual state of being incomplete.
Godel's Laws break down at Infinity. So, the representations must incorporate the Infinite, else they will fail to be at all useful to studies of Consciousness. Others have proposed multiple layers of infinity involved with the Infinitesimals. This may be a good understanding, or it may be a wrong direction. We need to base our explorations on what is directly experienceable, what is instrumentable.
I propose that my expression from last year, a Quantum Physics which contains Sentience, is more along the right lines of the correct understanding. Then, given these understandings, it is much easier to see how these quantum behaviors are originating from the SubQuantum. Please.
You cannot assume that there can exist a condition where there is 0 Consciousness, nor 0 intelligence, etc. The Universe works exactly in the way Lena has expressed, not in terms of a dead, an inert, system of mathematical abstractions. Life and Consciousness are in the BASIS. The Foundations of Reality are identically Consciousness.
As has been stated by others, "most fundamentally there is pure consiousness (God?), it could be said that 'pure consciousness' = ALL information."
Everything else is depending on this, as Lena expressed with,
"Whatever differentiation from 0 (or wholeness, absolute pure consiousness) occurs, and the first separate structure originates that could be perceived as in itself (still of course connected to the whole) - it would only contain partial information compared to absolute (ALL) information."
This is the foundation! This is the basis! There can be no deviation from this understanding, in my opinion.. Please see attached logical sequence, which derives a Sentient quantum physics. (Adrian has seen this before.) I am trying to suggest that Life and Consciousness need to be in the mix as intimate and relevant factors, in the basis, in the foundations. This is all driven by the engine of information, and information transport. And this information involves everything about everything. Then it is discriminated and individuated according to the circumstances, probably similar to way Lena suggested this might go, with her "partial information" expression.
Uniqueness is another property which is very difficult to properly treat mathematically. Yet, uniqueness is exceedingly important to understanding the inner workings of Reality. Where does Uniqueness derive from? I say it derives from the variations of the Unified Information base, the Unified Cosmic Awareness, and its falling into various pieces and parts, while remaining unified as a Whole, much in the same way as expressed by Bohm, with his "undivided wholeness" expressions. In this regard, our Layers of Implicate Order, are on exactly the right lines, and are experimentally provable. The Undivided Wholeness is accomplished by infinite velocity information transports by the vehicles of the infinitesimals, which infinitesimals combine with various other infinitesimals to form our various particles and fields, with information propagating every step of the way. Consciousness and Sentience are there in the process the entire time, through the entire process. These factors can NEVER be excluded! Certainly not for the lack of awareness of the various forms of Consciouness, such as Devas and Rocks! Just because another person is color blind, does not mean I am.
So, let's try to do this more along the lines of this little paper. Where the factors are not already present, let us install them, and see where this takes us, as I did with Sentience in this paper. These expressions make perfect sense of what Lena has said today.